Marvel has always thought outside the box with their directorial choices. Who would ever think the guy who wrote & directedSlitherwould one day be responsible for Marvel’s biggest franchise? Who in their right mind would hire an indie filmmaker with two credits to his name to helm theSpider-Manreboot? And yet each of these choices have paid off in spades:James Gunnused his wild ‘Troma’ style to craft the irreverentGuardians of the GalaxyandJon Wattsused his indie skills to groundSpider-Maninto the most relatable iteration of the character yet.
So on paper, sure,Taika WaititidirectingThor: Ragnarokdoesn’t seem to make a whole lot of sense. The New Zealand filmmaker has cut his teeth only on smaller indie comedies (the hilariousWhat We Do in the Shadows&Hunt for the Wilderpeople). Who would ever think Waititi should direct the third feature in the billion-dollarThorfranchise? And yet again – somehow this feels like the perfect choice, Waititi’s cheeky yet always sincere sense of humor fits The God of Thunder to a tee.
On the set ofThor: Ragnarok, Waititi seemed to be completely in his element, blasting the band Goblin in between takes and cracking jokes with the crew & cast. If you thought Waititi would seem nervous at the helm of such a big budget tentpole, then you’d be sorely disappointed. Of all the sets I’ve visited –Thor: Ragnarok, easily, was the most relaxed and fun, a testament to Waititi’s playful directorial exuberance.
In the following on-set interview with Taika Waititi, the director discusses putting his own personal stamp on theThorfranchise, the most difficult challenges on the sequel and whom he’s playing in the film. For the full interview, read below.
What’s the balance between putting your own personal stamp on Thor while also serving a larger corporate beast?
TAIKA WAITITI: There’s definitely a challenge wanting to be true to what the fans want and to the universe itself, but also – I have to keep reminding myself that I was hired for a reason and one of those reasons is because of the stories I tell and the films I’ve made previously. I’m trying to unify my type of storytelling with this kind of content. Hopefully it all comes out really nicely in the end. I don’t want to make an episode of some other larger thing. It’s not my job to make sure that that this makes sense three movies down the tracks for one of the other franchises. My job is to make a film that can sit as a standalone piece, that if it’s the only Marvel film you see, it’s a great film with a great story in and of itself. The lucky thing is that there’s a bunch of geniuses who run Marvel that make sure, even if it’s a standalone piece, that it’s part of a great big jigsaw puzzle that could be appreciated as a whole as well.
When you came on board the film, how much of the story was in place and how much did you change?
WAITITI: There were already story ideas when I came on board, but a lot of that changed over the first three or four months. Right from the beginning, [Marvel] wanted to lighten [Thor] little bit and embrace the adventure aspect of it. The last two films, definitely the last film, were a little darker. Personally I feel if the movie’s calledThor, then Thor should be the best character. My main focus was making him cool & funny when he needs to be and heroic when he needs to be. If you’ve seen my other films, there’s always a balance between comedy and drama. I think that’s a satisfying story to watch.
Talking about that balance, do you find that in the script? Do you find it here on set? Do you find that in the editing room? Where does that come in?
WAITITI: Everything – really. I’ve always found the script to be a bit more of a skeleton, the template. We improvise most scenes. I’ll be next to actors and yell suggestions at them all the time, and that goes for everyone from Tony [Hopkins] to Cate [Blanchet]. It’s a bit messy, but from that messiness comes really great spur of the moment stuff. Then the main balance is found in the editing. So with most takes, I would do stuff that’s way over the top and then bring it down & get something that’s exactly on the page and then something that’s a nice sort of middle balance where the tone is believable…
What kind of Thor do we meet at the start ofThor: Ragnarokas opposed to the previousThorfilms?
WAITITI: He’s a lot grubbier. I think everyone’s a bit too shiny and clean in the other films. I love heroes that really go through ordeals and then come out the other end completely changed. They come out the other side and they’ve been through the ringer. We do a lot to this character in the film. A lot of people want to see Ragnarok and know what it means; but, to me, Ragnarok means stripping down the establishment and then building it up in a new way. ‘Ragnarok’ is what we’re doing to the character and to the franchise and to the story.
It seems like the film is really inspired by Jack Kirby, Jason Aaron, and obviously Planet Hulk. Why those? And is there anything else you pulled from?
WAITITI: It was reallyPlanet Hulkand we pulled a little bit fromGod of Thunderand the Gorr runs. I looked at all the stuff that I personally feel are the coolest in the comics. We should have that and we should have that and we should have that… But I think you can ruin things by staying too true [to comics]. With every comic run, there’s always a retelling. There are rebirths. There are alternate universes. This film is so crazy, so eclectic, and there are so many amazing characters – Hulk, Thor, Hela. Loki, Grand Master… It really is, to my mind, the craziest of the Marvel films – in a good way.
What are the challenges of continuing theThorfranchise specifically?
WAITITI: The main challenge was working at getting away from the other two films. Yes, the other films are there and it’s great to watch them. I think they’re good films, but I don’t mind if people start with this film. For me this is my ‘Thor One’. I’ve seen the other films and I respect them, but I can’t spend too much time thinking about this as a three-quel because then I’ll get tied up too much in respecting what went before and respecting what’s to come after. [Thor: Ragnarok] has to be a standalone film because this could be the only time I do this. I just want to make it [my] version of a Marvel film in the best way possible.
Well, speaking of that – you’re known for a recurring ensemble. We heard that Rachel House is coming back. Is anybody else that’s been in your other films inThor: Ragnarok?
WAITITI: Yeah. There’s another actor, Cohen Holloway, who’s in all my other films. He plays one of the werewolves inWhat We do in Shadowsand he’s inBoy. He’s been in all my films. There’s him… and I’m in it… I’m in all my films. I can’t help it. I’ll just jam myself in there if there’s a space.
Who do you play in the film?
WAITITI: I’m playing one of thePlanet Hulkcharacters: Korg, who’s a Kronan and a bit bigger than me. It’s all mo-cap. And often, since Mark [Ruffalo’s] no longer here, I’ll often jump in for Hulk’s stuff. We have stand-ins, but they’re not actors and they don’t have timing so I’ll jump in for those things.
They introduce Surtur too, right?
WAITITI: I did Surtur as well, who will probably be re-voiced by someone else.
Thor seems much funnier in this film…
WAITITI: Yeah, Thor spent two years on Earth hanging out with Robert Downey, Jr. So he’s got some sass. He knows a little bit more about irony and sarcasm now. He’s got a little bit of Earth humor. He’s like a rich kid from outer space that’s spent some time slumming it for a bit, you know? So he’s instantly become a bit more interesting. But because he’s in different parts of the cosmos, he’s still learning as he goes. We haven’t modeled it completely on this, but in my mind, I imagined a great Thor being a bit like Jack Burton. What’s the version of Thor just wanting to get his truck back?
The film seems much more heavy on improvisation. What was it like to push the entire cast in this more comedic direction?
WAITITI: The thing that has surprised me about all the actors is just how far they can push it if they’re given permission to not do what everyone knows them for. It’s especially true for Hopkins. I think you can tell when actors are, like, ‘Okay, they just want me to do Tony Hopkins’ We said, ‘you’ve got permission to be funny and to really destroy what’s come before and recreate it.’ It’s something that everyone as an actor wants. It matters if you’ve done forty movies, you want to find work that’s interesting. You want to come to work and go – this is going to be a challenge. When I first met Cate, one of the first things she said to me was ‘I just want to punch people. I just want to do something where I get to have fun and my kids are going to enjoy watching.’
How is this pushing you as a filmmaker in terms of going to a bigger canvas with way more effects?
WAITITI: This may have spoiled me. When I go back to my smaller films, which I will, I’ll be, like where’s those nice ice coffee things they were handing out before? Why are we eating carrot sticks again? At first – I was a little apprehensive coming into something like this. I’ve done a lot of commercials and been on big sets before so I was okay with how that runs. What we’re doing essentially is exactly the same as all my other films. At the end of the day, when you call action, the lens is pointed at two or three people who are trying to remember lines and say them to each other in a convincing way. FromEagle vs. Sharkshot all the way through to this, it’s the exact same experience other than that we have to do a lot more effects passes with balls and charts. I don’t get annoyed by how long this stuff takes because I’ve seen all these other films, and I know how good it can look, if you take the time to get that stuff right.
We’ve heard that you have been using music on set to create a vibe on set…
WAITITI: I play music all the time because silence freaks me out. I was trying to have a very relaxed set. Just more of a family-feel. We’ve got kids running around all the time. Chris’s kids are running around. Music – it’s motivational and just makes you relax
What’s your take on the villains for this film?
WAITITI: Cate is the first female villain and, if I’m being honest, for me, the most interesting villain that [Marvel’s] had because she’s not two-dimensional. She’s layered. She’s troubled. She’s really funny. Amazing powers…Thor in the films has never fought anyone tougher than this lady.
You were a supporting player in a big comic book movie that is viewed as having not worked:Green Lantern. Were there any lessons you learned as an observer and a participant there?
WAITITI: Not necessarily on that film. When I was in that film, I was just determined to try and do a good job. I spent a long time just sitting around on set, so I’d watch how Martin would run things and he runs a set very well and very efficient, but very different to the way I do things… I probably learned more watching a lot of other superhero movies and a lot of big studio films. I started realizing, ‘Oh, I think I know what’s going wrong with these films.’ Usually it comes down to story. We worked a lot on the script to make sure we got it right and to make sure it made sense. You could just bust on through and try and make your day. You get stuff in the can, but it’s worthless when you come to edit. So we just wanted to take the time to make sure we got stuff right. And all these actors are great at that. Chris especially is very smart and very savvy when it comes to story. I think he’s learned on a lot of the films he’s done. You’ve got to discuss it and you got to make sure you get it right the first time.
